The relationship between price and sustainability is not always what it seems. We're talking about the many layers of cost, price tags, affordability, and slow fashion.
Is slow fashion always more expensive? Do you really have to spend more money to be part of the slow fashion movement?
What goes into the price of a responsibly made garment? And are expensive, luxury fashion brands more sustainable or ethical?
There is a lot to unpack in part 4 of our Conscious Question Series, so hit play and dive in!
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ELIZABETH
Is slow fashion more expensive? Do you really have to spend more money to be part of the slow fashion movement? What goes into the price of a responsibly made garment?
And are expensive, luxury fashion brands more sustainable or ethical?
The relationship between price and sustainability is not always what it seems. We're talking about the many layers of cost, price point, accessibility, and slow fashion. A lot to unpack in this one so let's get started!
ELIZABETH
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the conscious style podcast and our short series conscious questions where Stella and I dive into some of the most asked and talked about questions and topics in the sustainable fashion space.
STELLA
In previous Conscious Question episodes, we've answered questions like, can fast fashion ever be sustainable? Are fast fashion resale programs really progress or just more greenwashing? And how can we talk about slow fashion with our friends?
So you can scroll back in the podcast feed to tune into those if you've missed them, but today, we're addressing a very big question. Is slow fashion really more expensive? And if it is, why?
ELIZABETH
Yeah. Such a big question. Such a common question. And I think we're gonna dive into so many layers with that question, and to try and bring in, I think, different perspectives to that.
But first, I thought it would be really interesting to bring in some context on price and like the price of clothing today. Because I think a lot of us don't realize that. I mean, I don't realize that as a sort of on the border of millennial and Gen Z, I don't have a lot to reference back to. So I did some digging.
And I thought it was really interesting to find that actually, people in the US today spend far less on clothing than previous decades, both in like inflation adjusted prices, and also in terms of what percentage of their income people spend on clothing.
So we hear all the stats about people are buying more clothing than ever. Yet, still, even with buying more clothing. We're spending less overall on clothes, which is sort of mind boggling.
And there was this blog post I found from Dr. Mark Perry, who is a professor of economics and finance at the University of Michigan, and I will link that article. And it shares that in 1950 spending on clothing was 9% of the average income, 6% and 1970, and just 3% in 2009.
So, this is really, really interesting, right? Because we have more clothes, but we're spending significantly less, in total. So another stat that he shared that was really interesting was that from 1993 to 2009, prices, in general, rose 57% because of inflation, while prices for clothing fell 8.5%.
STELLA
That's fascinating, wow.
ELIZABETH
So… You know, I want to acknowledge that this might sound good to some people because there is a cost of living crisis right now we are going through an inflation sort of stress like an everyday people like this is it's really stressful situation with inflation.
And the sound of decreasing prices sounds great, I get that we want something affordable. Housing is going up, food is getting more expensive, energy to heat our homes or cool in the summer is getting more expensive.
So it's like this is the one nice thing I can hold on to is like fashionable clothes. So I get that. I don't know, what do you think Stella? It's like but, there's a reason why it's so cheap.
STELLA
Exactly. I think it's a bad situation. And I think we can acknowledge that it does, in a way bring joy. But also, let's look at the patterns. And why is this happening? And the stats that you shared are really telling about the kind of economics of fashion.
Because I think as we were saying we're relatively young and often sometimes it feels like fast fashion has always been here. And that's always been the way that the world has worked. And it's actually pretty new.
The way the fast fashion system and business model, it's not as old as we think it is, and the way our relationship to clothing and spending on clothing has changed has happened quite quickly. So yeah, I think it's good to acknowledge that we're in a cost of living crisis for sure.
But also to acknowledge that we can also critique fashion and be aware of the impacts of fashion at the same time. I don't think it has to be either-or.
ELIZABETH
Totally. Yeah, absolutely I'm with you. And I think that it's just interesting to think about it can be both and this might be the only clothing that some people can afford, because wages have not kept up with inflation.
And also, we can see that fast fashion is, like when you look at the numbers and the history, exorbitantly cheap. And perhaps maybe slow fashion, I'm not going to say luxury fashion is affordable. I would never say that.
I don't think you have to spend $2,000 on a dress for it to be a sustainable choice or quality piece. That it’s mostly the brand and the design, but yeah, anyway.
I'm not saying that, but I think maybe a slow fashion piece, right, like a piece made by a small business, made by skilled artisans, over the course of a few days, the price of that garment might actually be more in line with inflation-adjusted prices.
It might even be less expensive than historical clothing prices, adjusting for inflation, and fast fashion is just like wildly cheap.
And I get it. Because wages have not kept up with the cost of living and inflation when it comes to healthcare and energy, and in the US, university tuition. I mean, you might be $100,000 in debt at 22.
And I get that, so of course, I get the appeal of affordable clothing. And I totally acknowledge that.
But it's also like, there's a real cost to everything. And someone is paying for that cheap garment. So, it's like, that's why we talk so much about it being a system problem, because somebody's access to clothing shouldn't come at the cost of someone's life quality.
STELLA
Right. And I think what was interesting as well to look at those numbers, and how they changed and throughout the years, is also that we can look at it from more of a macro point of view.
So we're not just speaking about the individual and what may be most accessible, but we're actually looking at well, things have shifted, and in quite a short period of time.
What we spend on clothing, compared to how much clothing we are buying has really changed and we're buying so much more many more garments right now, but we are not spending as much as we used to.
I think sometimes it even helps, because, as we're saying we're not disputing the cost of living crisis and what might feel most accessible to people, which is really important to note, but it helps to take a step back and look at like the macro and discuss the systemic in that as well.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, I do think it is part of the same problem, like I'm reading the book, Worn: A People's History of clothing.
It was really interesting because she wrote that, you know, the average retail employee's salary in the US is $23,000 a year, which for the US cost of living is like, I believe, basically the poverty level for a family, a household of two or three.
And so if somebody has a child or two, and is making that as a retail employee in the US at these fast fashion brands, like all they can afford is that fast fashion garment, if they don't have the time to sift through thrift stores. And so it's kind of part of the same system.
And then right, who owns that fast fashion brand? Probably a billionaire. And you look at the owner of Inditex, which owns Zara. The owner, you know, H&M, all those groups, all those sort of big fashion conglomerates and fast fashion brands.
They're making their billions off the backs of both the people making the clothes for pennies, and by underpaying the retail workers.
STELLA
Right. 100%. It's an interesting lens, I fully agree. And something that we need to acknowledge, because as we often say, there is no such thing as cheap fashion.
Somebody's always paying the price of that, you know, human being. And also natural ecosystems with that, you know, are being extracted from continuously to provide for the fashion industry, in terms of fabrics and fibers and all of that.
So I think it's maybe a good, even way to segue into talking about we've been talking a lot about buying, right? And how access has changed and how pricing has changed.
But maybe even to get into just about how buying isn't the be-all and end-all of slow fashion. You know, there's quite a lot to it. It isn't just about where you buy from. It's also about how you buy, which is something that I had to learn coming into the space.
Because I think that the access point, you know. I remember thinking, wow, slow fashion brands are quite a bit more than I would ordinarily have to spend on clothing. So does that mean that I can't be a part of the movement because I can't afford it?
And it's actually a sentiment that still gets expressed to me to this day. It's a question that I get often of well, I'm a student. I can't afford to buy this piece or that piece from this brand or slow fashion brand.
I always have to reiterate that purchasing is only one tiny part of what it means to be in the movement. And actually, even if you never buy anything new, you can still be a slow fashion advocate, and you can still be a part of the space because you're using what you have.
So yeah, I just wanted to add that in the beginning.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, absolutely. It's also like the idea of fewer things. And that is, I think that's really difficult for us to wrap our head around.
So we're not used to having to make a commitment to things and we see it even when furniture. Like we picked up a TV stand via this secondhand app called OfferUp and the guy was like, yeah, I just decided I don't like the style anymore. I want to refresh of my apartment.
And I think that is for people with disposable income to spend on that kind of stuff, that is the culture.
STELLA
Right. No, I fully agree. And I think that's why the cost of living crisis is interesting, because it's also making us reckon with, are we buying what we need, are we buying, because we're trying to like keep up with how much other people are buying? And what has become the norm of consumption habits?
I think about this a lot, and I have been thinking about this a lot recently, because I'll hear my grand, and my mom speaking about when she was growing up, right? My gran used to buy my mom clothes, twice a year, like new clothes, and she'd get like, just a few garments, and that would last her for many years.
And clothing was in a way a luxury. And I was thinking about this in terms of style, right? Because it often feels like people speak about the fast fashion system as democratizing fashion. And you have a lot of access to different styles.
But then I was thinking back to my mom and my grand, and they had really good style, and they weren't buying a lot. They weren’t buying very few pieces in the year, but still able to really hone the power of fashion as a form of expression.
And so I've been reflecting on this a lot in terms of how they’re different from my generation? And our expectation and desire and kind of entitlement to fashion consumption has changed. So we also have a different perspective on what we should be able to spend or buy or access in any given time, which is an interesting thing.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, right. And I think you have a completely different mindset around price if you're buying for the weekend, for going out on the weekend, versus if you're buying for the long haul and that's going to be something that you're going to treasure for decades, maybe even pass on.
Young people probably aren't thinking about that. And maybe that's normal. And also when you're young, you're still changing sizes and all that's kind of stuff. So of course, I acknowledge that. And yes, you want to stay in trend, you want to be cool. You want to fit in — I get that 100%.
But I do think that we should at least acknowledge that that's why. We should say instead of being like, well, it's maybe like other stuff is unaffordable. Maybe that's true for you, but maybe also sometimes it's not and you just kind of want the trendy stuff. And I think being honest maybe about that will at least get us further along in the conversation.
And for some people, it might legitimately be price. Again, I just want to make so clear that it is the reality for some people, but like, it's definitely not the reality for everybody. It's not the reality for the people buying $1,000 Shein hauls.
STELLA
No, exactly. And I think I'm particularly also aware of this because of the context of the country I live in of there being a lot of people that out of necessity, don't overconsume, right? And keep repairing and keep mending and pass things down, hand me downs and all of that.
And I'm just aware that like, of course, we don't use the language because of slow fashion and sustainable fashion. Sometimes when you're in those kinds of spaces and conversations, but making do with what you have, and really playing into your style, and not having it hinge on trends and consumption is also just a really, at the core of this movement.
So I always try and remind people of that, as well, when we kind of come into the space expecting that what we buy also defines our commitment in a way, because it feels like that sometimes. When people are asking me, well I can't afford this brand, so I can't be a part of the movement.
And I think it's really important to acknowledge, like, we were talking earlier about the class barriers and differentiation in the movement and how this concept, while we have a very specific idea of what slow fashion might look like, it doesn't always fit for everybody.
And it's really good to acknowledge that necessity also breeds like slow fashion practices.
So that's why I just think about that when this question of is slow fashion too expensive comes up. I'm like, if we look at it from the lens of this is exactly what we are defining as slow fashion.
And we have this idea was that a fashion person looks like I don't know! Maybe it's somebody that only wears slow fashion brands or maybe it's even somebody that only thrifts, or whatever the case may be.
If we broaden it, then we understand that slow fashion practices exist across the board and, and are often not linked to people with a lot of excess income in the first place. So…
ELIZABETH
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I've heard people advocate like, we shouldn't be calling it slow fashion because that sort of implies shopping which I don't know if I totally fully agree with that. But it depends on the context that you're hearing these words.
So if slow clothing works for you, or like slow style, I don't know this podcast is called conscious style. It also does it after fashion. Because also fashion might feel like a fashion brands, the fashion industry. And we're just talking about clothes, and shoes and whatever.
Like at the end of the day, we're just talking about having a more mindful way of accessing and caring for and wearing your clothes and your other sort of footwear and accessories.
There are slow fashion brands that embody slow fashion concepts. But the slow fashion, they're like, they're like one piece of the slow fashion …
STELLA
… puzzle.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, exactly
And you can you can take different pieces that work for you. Leave others. Like I've talked about this before, but I think everybody has a different sort of barrier and lifestyle. Some people are short on time. Some people are short on money. Some people are short on both and like some people have both in abundance.
So like, basically, based on that you can sort of figure out which way of participating in slow fashion works best for you. And like, to your point, there are so many ways of getting involved.
So yeah, let's talk about what are some of the other ways we can get involved with slow fashion if purchasing from slow fashion brands is not affordable or accessible?
STELLA
Right? Yeah, because I think for a long time, at the beginning of my journey, I didn't buy from some fashion brands because of that just financial access. So I always say my journey started at a clothing swap. And I think swaps are really fun. So I'm always a big advocate for them.
So clothing swaps, even if it's not like an event, you can literally swap with your friends with people that you've found on the internet, if you are like feel comfortable to set something up in your personal life, it doesn't have to be a big event that you have to wait to attend, it can be something you initiate on a very small scale.
And thrifting is another way of buying secondhand or preloved whatever you want to call it. Basically, not new clothes. But that's another way that a lot of, especially students, or people with less income can be involved in the movement. And there's luckily quite a lot of avenues for that these days, even if you don't have a store in your geography.
There are quite a few online places now, even just little Instagram businesses, for you to try out if that's something that you're curious about. But I would say, of course that the best or most slow practice is always to just wear what you have and find different ways to bring joy into your life with the clothing that's already in your wardrobe.
And it doesn't always fulfill our desire for novelty, as much as other practices might. But it's, of course the most sustainable. So even if you never buy anything new again, I said this earlier, but you'll still be a part of the movement.
What is yours? Do you have anything you want to add?
ELIZABETH
Yeah, I love how you're putting that. I mean, I think the biggest takeaway is like there isn't a gate to the slow fashion community.
And I'm with you. When I started out six years ago, all I saw were people decked out in fully like eco brands to slow fashion brands. And I thought that I couldn't be part of the movement because I was in college at that point and broke. So yeah, I felt like I couldn't participate.
And I love that the conversation has expanded so much. I think we need to continue that and continue communicating that to people because Big Fashion definitely doesn't want us to think of slow fashion or conscious fashion or sustainable fashion as these alternatives.
They want us to think that means buying their conscious collection or whatever.
Yeah, I would add to that there’s other activism and before you are like Oh, what? That sounds so scary. You can look so many different ways. It might look like a digital activist. It might look like you know, I say in so many, in so many episodes, follow Remake an amazing organization. Follow Clean Clothes Campaign, Labor Behind The Label, Garment Worker Center.
I'm a Remake ambassador. So during their meetings, we're going about their campaigns that they're running. And they do it in person actions, like they organize protests, but also they do a lot of digital advocacy, which is basically just asking people, you know, they call out a brand and they ask people to tag that brand, comment on the brand's posts on Instagram, or tweet at them. And that might be it might feel more accessible to you.
STELLA
Yeah, I totally agree. I think it's important to speak about the alternatives outside of buying, because at the end of the day, I think your recent Instagram post really put it well: slow fashion is a mindset.
And the hardest work of all is really getting our minds and the way we consume and think about clothing to shift. And that's not going to come from just shifting to buying different things, right?
We really have to sit with ourselves and interrogate our behaviors and habits, often unconscious habits when it comes to clothing and the way we relate to it. So love that recent posts that you did on Instagram. And I just wanted to mention the mindset point here.
ELIZABETH
Mindset is so key.
Like I've been seeing a lot about, like fast, or sorry, secondhand fashion is becoming like fast fashion in the way that people are doing these thrift hauls, and just getting huge loads of stuff that they don't intend on really wearing maybe more than once.
And, okay, maybe from a waste perspective, it's better. Yes, from an emissions perspective, depending, it could be better. But I think also, if someone's now buying a garment, wearing it once, and then like, oh, well, now I can just sell it, and then someone else buys it and wears it once.
We're not really getting to like the root of the problem I think.
If everyone's just wearing it once and then shipping it around. I think it kind of misses the point about the sustainability of secondhand. I think it should still be hopefully intentional. Of course, sometimes you buy something wear it once, realize that it doesn't fit, right. That happens.
But I'm talking about this sort of the habitual one wear, resell, one wear or resell. So we have to also, yeah, get a little deeper.
STELLA
No, I agree. And we've talked a lot about how slow fashion doesn't have to be expensive, right? And mentioned all these different ways.
But maybe the, I wouldn't call it an elephant in the room but there’s something that people are maybe wondering about is the cost of garments produced by slow fashion brands or smaller businesses and why those in our current economy and fashion system are often priced much higher than your standard fast fashion item.
And I read a recent Vogue article which had a quote in it from Ayesha Barenbalt from Remake.
ELIZABETH
She's the best!
STELLA
I know, and also her points are so good. Like, every time I read a quote, like, you really hit it on the nail on the head there.
She was saying, sustainably made garments are priced in a way that reflects the brand's dedication to reducing the impact on the environment and on the makers of clothing. And I think that sums it up so perfectly, because it's a reflection of the true cost, right?
It's a reflection of how much time energy resources and effort went into creating that clothing. And we don't get that reflected to us in the fast fashion space where artificially cheap clothing is constantly marketed towards us. Right.
And yeah, I think one more thing that she mentioned in that article was also that sustainable fashion is considered expensive or sustainable fashion for brands right, is considered expensive because it's against the context of a generation of shoppers that is expecting throw away pieces and throw away prices, which I thought was a really interesting way to look at it and feeds back into our conversation around like the way cost and how much we spend has changed over the years.
ELIZABETH
Yeah. And I think that instead of asking why can't these clothes be cheaper, right, the slow fashion garment can be cheaper? I think we should be advocating why aren't people being paid more? Why aren't being paid a living wage where they can buy some nice clothes? Like I think we should maybe flip the script a little bit.
And be like, well, slow fashion brands should be cheaper, maybe, but a lot of slow fashion brands are really pricing what they need to to stay in business. And so then reducing the price comes at a cost — either sacrifice on the material sustainability, or the wages that they pay their workers.
And so you should be, the consumer should be paid a living wage, and also, the person making your shirt should be made a living wage, right? Because Don't you want a living wage? And shouldn't everybody be making a living wage?
STELLA
Yeah, and this is what we mean when we talk about fashion as a system, because it will really take change in every part of the system, before we see like the transformation of the industry, which is necessary.
And also to maybe unpack a little bit about what is behind this slow fashion garment. As you're saying often the pricing is reflective of what it took to make it and the profit margins are often very small, compared to a big corporation, where the majority of the cost of the item on the retail shelf is probably profit.
So you know, when you're buying something from a fashion brand, or small business, they're usually focusing on creating a really durable product that can be worn for your lifetime, probably even passed down to generations to come.
Often longer lead times and factories because they're not keeping up with this, like rampant trend cycle that's constantly changing. And this also allows for like, the payment of living wages, like you were saying, and there are all these factors that can push up the cost.
So anything from ethical materials sourcing, really putting in the time to make sure that the places you're sourcing fibers from the farms, the processes, all of those businesses and people are paid well, and the labor conditions are sound, and you know, they're not harming the environment around them.
So anything from that to also paying living wages, which in a previous episode, or in an article I written, we discussed how paying living wages doesn't necessarily mean that the cost of a garment has to go up in terms of fast fashion.
But often, in terms of smaller brands, because the margins aren't as big, it may affect the cost of a garment.
ELIZABETH
And the scale isn't as big.
STELLA
Exactly. Production, like if you aren't producing 1000s, hundreds of 1000s of garments, of course, the you know, the price is going to be affected by that. And also just, I think in terms of collaborations and working with different designers or design communities, and producing really sentimental clothing.
There's a lot of care and time and effort that goes into that that should be reflected in the cost because this is a garment you're buying for not just one wear or one weekend, but something you're really going to cherish. It's high quality and intended to last. So I think when you think about that you really realize how much goes into a garment and why the price might be higher.
ELIZABETH
Yeah. In my episode with Zoe Hong, How to Identify High Quality Clothing, Zoey detailed all the steps of fashion production. And I mean, it's just such a long list. I think we don't, because so much of it is hidden from us so much as, out of sight out of mind. We don't realize that there's so, so much that goes into a garment.
I mean, I definitely encourage you to go back to the episode, listen to her, list it all out. But there's just so, there's so many steps. And then at the end, she was like, yeah, and think about the price of some of the T-shirts that you see and you wonder how could it possibly be that cheap with these 15 steps?
And I asked, well, what are some of these cheaper brands or these fast fashion brands, what step are they skipping? And she had a great point that they skip the design stage. Right?
They copy from the runway, they copy from independent designers and artists, they steal from small businesses, and even other fast fashion brands. Like we're seeing like these ultra-fast fashion brands copy from like slower…
STELLA
Literally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [laugh]
ELIZABETH
… fast fashion brands. And so they're even copying like from each other.
And it's just like, you know it's like a copy of a copy. Or they're copying vintage. That bothers me the most when they have these like vintage style. And they copy things that are like maybe trending in the vintage market. That bothers me the most. That's the second — that bothers me the second most.
The biggest is when they steal from small independent designers and slow fashion brands, who spent, they poured their heart and soul into designing this combination.
So like, yeah, in order to get something that cheap, you have to cut out certain steps. One big part is design and other ones we talked about was fit. They don't do really fit testing. So it's probably why things might fit weird because they didn't. You have to fit it on real people to make sure that.
STELLA
And that takes time. Yeah, exactly. They're trying to cut time, and costs at every corner. And I think something that I've noticed in my own life, which I'm wondering if you've noticed, too, but I find that slow fashion brands are certainly the small businesses here that I've supported are often not, much more expensive than some fast fashion brands.
ELIZABETH
True.
STELLA
I'll say in South Africa's context, Zara and H&M are not fundamentally very cheap. Especially Zara, you can get some quite pricey things there. And I've certainly bought things from brands that are cheaper and I know made more ethically because I've spoken to the owner to ask questions or really follow the journey of this brand, to where they are today.
So I think it's also good to note that because there is this fundamental belief that fast fashion is always the cheapest, cheapest option. And sometimes the profit margins are so big that the prices are inflated to a point where it's not even cheap anymore.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, that is such a good point. I also experienced that in the US with Zara. Like when Zara sort of made waves by making a big arrival to the US years ago, so that's interesting.
And also a brand that's more higher-end fast fashion, so to say in terms of price, like Anthropologie, definitely slow fashion brands can be found at that price point.
Like yeah, you know, at the time of recording, Anthropologie has dresses for $200. Pants and tops for $100, $150 each like that is, that's not cheap. You can definitely buy and sell fashion brands for that price where there is the reason behind that price? Right?
I've never been one for like designer things, because I think you're mostly paying for the marketing and the brand. Which doesn't feel great to me, personally. But I like to know, like a slow fashion brand if you make an investment in a slow fashion brand, there's like a reason for that price.
STELLA
Yes, yes. yes, no. 100% like often you've, I don't know, I've often spoken to the owners of small businesses, if I bought it from a market or even on Instagram and just like, knowing that my money is going towards like the dreams of this person and all the people that they are supporting within this supply chain. It makes such a big difference to me.
Personally, I'm maybe just very sentimental. But yeah, to have a clear understanding that it's contributing to the local textile economy in my country and city is just, it's really important to me. Yeah,
ELIZABETH
Yeah. I love that. It's so true. You maybe know the person that you're supporting, you can have a conversation with the owner and I think feel a little bit better about where your money is going.
For nothing else, maybe that… Zara doesn't miss your $500. But that small business is doing a happy dance for that, you know, $100 or, that makes such a difference to them.
And I think, we can feel like well, I'm not shopping from fast fashion won't stop them, right? There's millions of other people shopping, it's probably true, we can contribute to the culture shift though. A. And B, it maybe it's not always about like what you're not doing. But if you instead support your local charity shop, or you support a local slow fashion business, they feel that, they benefit from that.
I'm not saying we can shop our way to sustainability. That's not what I'm saying. But I think those two choices again, if you can. I also think you're gonna feel better if you care about these things. Because when we have the cognitive dissonance and sort of this difference between what we believe and think and then what we do, I think it doesn't feel good, either. So…
STELLA
No, I completely agree. And so I think it's interesting, because we might see the price tag of a garment from a slow fashion brand and be surprised by the price, maybe it's higher than we expected.
But I think another point that applies to my own journey very much so, is that even if it is priced higher than you expecting, the way you slow down your consumption, you often save money, right?
Because I know that when I was buying things, just here and there, it all adds up. When you're buying from fast fashion. You think it's oh, this is not that much money, like I'll just buy it. But you're doing that so often, that it adds up.
So when I really started my intentional, slow fashion journey, I was trying to slow down how much I was buying, but also try and support local businesses in the process. I have definitely saved money over the past few years, because I'm thinking about what I'm buying.
And going back to a point about slow fashion, being a mindset and really trying to reflect on, the way we are shifting our own behaviors. Yes, the individual garment price, what price might be a bit more expensive, but how much money I was spending and saving has definitely changed.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, yeah, totally. And cost per wear is something that gets talked about.
STELLA
And it's actually such I think not enough people think about that enough. But cost per wear it was a big realization for me.
If you buy something and it's a little bit more expensive, but you're wearing it once a week or you know, more than once a week because I do that quite a lot.
I buy something and just wear it all the time; get a bit obsessed… but the cost per week goes down significantly. And it ends up being oftentimes like shockingly affordable, even if you in the first instance invested a relatively large amount of money in it. So yeah, it's worth thinking about.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, absolutely. I recently had experienced like that I'd been looking for like boots for winter and I got these boots from a brand called Thesus, which is a woman of color owned brand. The shoes are 95% recycled and natural materials and they have a commitment to 100% and they pay living wages in the sort of areas that they have control over and have like a laid out plan for ensuring living wages across our entire supply chain.
Just like a very transparent brand who's already doing a lot and committed to doing even more which is just like I mean that's like the best combination right? So I bought a pair of boots from them and they were $200 and then I was like it's not like my feet are gonna grow.
STELLA
No, yeah exactly.
ELIZABETH
Like 10 years you know at least, hopefully I can wear them as long as possible but I'm planning on really wearing them on hikes and like in the snow are gonna probably go through a lot of weather elements. But like I literally in winter I wear boots every single day.
So what better thing to like invest in? Right? So I think if you're nervous to invest in something I feel like something like shoes or maybe a handbag is somewhere good just or a coat because that's something you know that you're gonna wear.
That's definitely what I get the most use out of his shoes and I've noticed that I'm like, okay, I'm willing to invest more in shoes because I know that I'm going to wear them hundreds and hundreds of times.
And also, the Theseus shoes are very comfortable. So like comfort is a huge factor. Durability. Roundabout way of saying like that might be a good place to start with like sort of investing if you're able to and you're looking to be like, you know, I actually do want fewer things.
I have too much stuff. I want fewer things that are higher quality and more comfortable that I really, really love.
STELLA
100% Yeah, and I think sometimes it might be difficult to picture the cost per hour when you're just in that moment of purchasing.
But to really like think about, I think there's like a 30 ways rule or even just to think about in your mind, how many outfits can I picture this item with in my closet currently?
And it's a good way to forecast or really to be able to just guess at and tell that you're gonna get a lot of wear out of it. Probably working out the costume away from there is a little bit easier. So just think about it, it's a good thing to keep in mind when you are investing in something.
ELIZABETH
Yeah. And when the cost is a little higher, like from a slow fashion brand, it does maybe cause you to pause a little bit and be like: okay, well, like this in the moment, maybe maybe I should think about it for a few days. Maybe I should think about it for a little longer and make sure it's something [I like].
And so it kind of just in terms of budget constraints might kind of force you to do a pause.
STELLA
That's very true. I'm like somebody that will think about it for months before I buy it often. Sometimes something isn't even in production by the time I want it anymore. But it's a good way of reflecting because I'll have it on my wish list.
And if in a few months, I'm still like really like no, I think that this is something I really want to invest in, and I can just picture the outfits I'll go with, it's a way of just showing myself that, okay, you've thought about it. You know, it's not an irrational purchase.
It's not dependent on my mood on the day, just like my emotions, and then something that I've really considered so yeah, that pause is actually a very powerful thing. Sometimes cause us to do that. Yeah.
ELIZABETH
Yeah at least one night's sleep… [laugh]
STELLA
At least, at least. Yes.
ELIZABETH
… minimum, I think is useful.
And with that, also if you're like, I really love this piece. And you're like oh it's so expensive. What's really cool is that now slow fashion brands, you might be able to find them on a secondhand platform, or they might have their own secondhand platform.
STELLA
Yeah, that's a really good point. And it makes often these brands a lot more accessible. So I think we've kind of covered why slow fashion doesn't have to be more expensive, like as a concept, because the fashion is not always about buying.
We've also chatted a bit about the breakdown of garments from some fashion brands and why the cost is sometimes a bit higher than you expect. What goes into that and also how, just because it's — the initial investment price is a bit higher doesn't mean that it cost per wear or the way that you wear it is more expensive than something else you might buy it.
And I think something that we should also touch on is just this misconception that expensive brands or that a higher price means that something is more ethical or sustainable, which is a big one. Because it's not necessarily.
ELIZABETH
That is big one. Yeah.
STELLA
So I think, you know, we might get into the thinking and especially if we're looking at maybe something from a store fashion brand that is higher price higher than something from a fast fashion brand. We might get into the thinking of higher price equals higher quality or more ethical practices in the supply chain, right?
And I think this is a very good example of this is luxury fashion. Because those garments are expensive. I don't own any luxury, but it's a very, very high price point and often aspirational pieces that people have. And you are buying into, like the name and the legacy of the brand.
But if we're thinking about how we often see fast fashion is spoken about as the lowest quality of clothing and the cheapest versus that, we might assume that the practices in the supply chain are sustainable and ethical.
Which we have seen from Fashion Revolution's Fashion Transparency index and Remake's Accountability report that this is not always the case. I remember reading the most recent Fashion Revolution fashion transparency index, and seeing that some of the most renowned luxury brands including like Dolce and Gabbana, DKNY, and like Tom Ford score between 0 and 5% for transparency.
And it just shows that we can't make judgments about supply chain ethics and sustainability from price points of garments. I don't know if you agree with that.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, 100%. I have a couple of designer pieces that I got secondhand. And they're like, made from polyester. So the design is cool. Like, I bought it because I like — the fit was nicer than what I'm used to, for sure.
But I think they are focused a little bit more on the design and the fit, and the brand, of course. But yeah, from a quality perspective, I will say the fit is usually really nice. If you can get spoiled with the fit, but the fabrics were not sustainable.
And who knows what the labor, yeah, to your point, there's no transparency, so who knows that the people are being paid fairly? Were being paid any more than they do working for making a Shein piece or an H&M piece. We don't know.
It's not like luxury fashion is slow fashion, I guess is what we're trying to say. But that's also not to say that 100% of luxury brands are unsustainable, right? So it's just that we have to do a little bit more digging.
STELLA
Yeah, we do. I think this conversation, has just shared a bit about what you can and can't tell from price and what you should be aware of when it comes to how something is priced.
Which is important when it comes to luxury because they are luxury brands and have admirable practices, and there are some that really don't. And that just, it takes unfortunately it does take like time and research to look into that.
But you can't judge from price value. Can't judge from face value, can't judge from price value when it comes to luxury.
ELIZABETH
Yes, the moral of the story of this episode is that things are complicated and more complicated than they seem; more complicated than a hot take on a news article headline. We want to open up this conversation too.
DM at @consciousstyle on Instagram, email podcast@consciouslifeandstyle.com. Let us know your thoughts. I love chatting with you all on Instagram. And that can inspire future conversations that we have on this podcast.
Always sort of listening to what you all are thinking and saying and feeling and wanting to know more about…
STELLA
No, for sure. Especially if it's engaging with conversations we've had on here. Because we know like we're not experts and we speak from our own experience. So it's nice to hear different perspectives, especially on this kind of topic, which is super context-specific. And everybody has their own experiences with accessibility and prices, slow fashion.
ELIZABETH
Yeah would love to get more perspectives on this. And I think that there's so much nuance and layers. And I think it's really hard to make snap judgments.
STELLA
Right? Yeah. So I think if anything, these conversations and these conscious questions, and specifically this one, I just said to provide points of reflection to spark thought and to help you I guess, just think of it more deeply about the way that you relate to your clothes.
We don't have concrete answers, unfortunately, or easy answers. But hopefully, this helps you reflect on your own journey a bit more.
ELIZABETH
Beautiful way to end! Stella, thank you for guiding this conversation. I went off on so many tangents. Stella brought it back for us. Thank you, Stella.
And thank you everybody, for listening today. Make sure to follow or subscribe to the Conscious Style Podcast on your favorite listening app so you don't miss future conscious questions and other episodes.
If you enjoyed this conversation or enjoying these episodes, so far, rate, review, share the show all that little bit helps.
We're a small independent show. So that really, you know we don't have a network behind us so that all those little shares and ratings go a long way and helping us reach more people.
And then as you mentioned, DM, @consciousstyle Instagram or email to send your feedback. And then finally, subscribe to the newsletter conscious edit at consciouslifeandstyle.com/edit. This is like, I think a really great way — I'm obviously biased because I write the newsletters — but it's a great way to stay up to date on what's happening in sustainable fashion space.
I curate what I find to be like the most interesting news and best articles, some great podcasts that I listened to or videos and documentaries just like various recommendations. And I just think that there's a lot to sort through. So I hope that that can be a useful resource for you as a free newsletter. The link will be in the episode description or video YouTube description. Oof, that was a lot.
Stella, can you tell everybody what we're going to be talking about in next week's conscious question?
STELLA
Yes, of course. So if you are enjoying the series, please tune in again next week. We're going to unpack another quite heavy, big topic, which is who is responsible for overconsumption and overproduction?
We are known for big topics on this podcast. So I guess come along on the journey with the next one. And we'll see you there.
ELIZABETH
Yes, it's a big one. It's a very big one. So we'll see how we manage that.
Okay, bye for now everyone.
Hope to see you next Tuesday for another episode or I'll be in your inbox on Saturday, if you're a subscriber. Take care.