Overconsumption is a major problem in the fashion industry. And secondhand is often advocated for as a solution. But is it possible to overconsume secondhand fashion as well? This is a loaded question that comes with nuance and obviously, lots of opinions... which makes it perfect for a segment for Stella and I's Green or Greenwashing series — we love to cover complex and controversial topics in this series! Let's dive in.
Overconsumption is a major problem in the fashion industry. And secondhand is often advocated for as a solution. But is it possible to overconsume secondhand fashion as well?
This is a loaded question that comes with nuance and obviously, lots of opinions... which makes it perfect for a segment for our Green or Greenwashing series — we love to cover complex and controversial topics in this series!
And we want to hear YOUR thoughts on this topic as well. DM Elizabeth over at @consciousstyle on Instagram with your thoughts and takes on this topic or to request a future topic you want to hear covered.
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LINKS MENTIONED:
Article: "The trouble with secondhand: it's becoming like fast fashion"
Graphic: Linear Economy vs. Recycling vs. Circular Economy
Podcast: More Creativity, Less Consumption with Alyssa Beltempo
Podcast: Building a Better Secondhand Fashion System with Emily Stochl
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ELIZABETH
Overconsumption is a major problem in the fashion industry. And secondhand is often advocated for as a solution. But is it possible to overconsume secondhand fashion as well?
This is a very loaded question that comes with nuance and obviously, lots of opinions. Which makes it perfect for a segment for Stella and I's Green or Greenwashing series. We love to cover complex and controversial topics in this series!
Stella and I have been doing these Green or Greenwashing segments at the end of the past several episodes. But as I mentioned in last week's episode, I'm going to start separating these segments out into stand alone episodes so that we have more time and space to dive deeper into these topics and they don't just get crammed and rushed into the end of our interview episodes.
So here we are! And as I like to mention from time to time, these segments are not meant to be end-all-be-all's on the questions at end. Afterall, we usually pick very controversial and complicated topics to cover. So the conversation does not end here. I want to hear your thoughts. You can send me a DM on Instagram @consciousstyle.
Or if you have a question or topic you think we should discuss in a future podcast episode, you can also send me a DM about that.
If you're looking to dive deeper into sustainable fashion, I want to share two free resources for you.
First is a 12-page secret Google Doc full of sustainable fashion resources: podcasts, books, media outlets, and more.
The second is my free weekly newsletter The Conscious Edit where I share sustainable fashion education and news so you can stay updated with what's happening in this space.
You can get both by heading to consciouslifeandstyle.com/edit. That's consciouslifeandstyle.com/edit. By signing up for the Conscious Edit newsletter, you get access to that secret Google Doc.
The sign up link is also linked below in the description for this podcast episode in your podcast player.
Alright now let's dive into this week's Green or Greenwashing topic: is it possible to overconsume secondhand?
ELIZABETH
And now we're moving into the green or greenwashing segment of this episode, and this week's Green or Greenwashing, we're going to talk about if it's possible to over consume secondhand fashion?
And this topic was inspired by a Vogue Business article called, "The trouble with secondhand. It's becoming like fast fashion." And this article asked the question, you know, is the overconsumption of secondhand, still sustainable?
And they were using some of the data that came out of the RealReal and thredUP's user reports. The RealReal, for instance, reported that the average user visits their site 127 times per year, which would be like, one visit every three days. And the average user spends 1475 minutes on the site annually. And thredUP's also had some data showing how often people are shopping secondhand on their site as well.
And so, you know, this Vogue Business article was questioning, is secondhand fashion consumed in large amounts still green? Or is it basically kind of greenwashing, like using secondhand as an excuse to continue to overconsume? So we're going to unpack that today.
Stella, what are your thoughts on this question?
STELLA
Yeah, it's another slightly complex one, which we love to tackle in this segment. I think I understand where the sentiment is coming from. But honestly, I believe that there is no shortage of secondhand clothing. Like, we know this for a fact. There's just way too much clothing in the world.
And I think there is like this very often-quoted statistic that only about 10-20% of clothing that's donated to charity shops in the US, resells in those stores. So I'm not saying that you know, that should necessarily justify thoughtlessly buying and just constantly consuming secondhand for the sake of it.
But I also think that there's an there's an issue more with why there is so much surplus in the first place. And really what happens to the clothing that doesn't get placed in charity stores or even end up in our own wardrobes. And yeah, it's really important to question those systemic issues as well. And not just like focus on people's individual consumption patterns. I don't know if that makes sense.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, totally. Yeah, I think it's really interesting and important to take into account, like the bigger picture, as you said. Just how many clothes there are on the secondhand market. And as we've covered in several episodes, what doesn't get sold in, you know, let's say, the US or in other countries, and you know, the so called Global North, we know that that access is then getting exported to other countries and becoming waste there.
And ending up in rivers ending up in the Atacama Desert being burned, you know, it, we definitely don't have a shortage of secondhand clothing. So, yeah, on like a macro level, I don't necessarily think there's a sustainability concern with overconsuming secondhand, except, of course, for like, the emissions of shipping all that stuff.
Like, if you're buying a secondhand item, wearing it once, you know, shipping it again, the next person is wearing it once shipping it to the next person, I guess, like we have to think about… I think that once you do consume the secondhand piece, it's probably good to keep it as long as you can.
Because otherwise, you're maybe just diverting it from the landfill for a month, and then it's ending up in the landfill anyway. So I think like once we bring in close to our lives, or other, you know, shoes, accessories, whatever, I think that we… then it's like kind of our responsibility. And so we have to take that into account.
Because otherwise, you know, there's like that, that graphic that's like, like the throwaway economy, which is basically the product to waste. And then there, you know, it's like an arrow pointing down. And then there's like, the second graphic is like an arrow pointing, and basically, it gets diverted for a little bit, but then it still ends up as waste. And then there's like the circular economy, which is a full circle, and continuing to keep that product in use. And I'm gonna link a photo of the graphic that I'm visualizing, so it makes sense.
But I feel like that's important to consider that we're not just sort of consuming a ton of stuff, and then, you know, we're like, well, we got it second hand, so I don't feel bad now about throwing it away.
Because I know that I've fallen a little bit into that, like, you know, I'm like, Oh, well this thing was headed to the landfill. Anyway, I don't, I don't feel as bad about discarding it. And I have to, like, catch myself and be like, Wait, like, I should still take care of it. Even if I got it. Even if I quote unquote, saved it from a landfill, I should still care for it. You know what I mean?
STELLA
Definitely. And I've also definitely been in this place myself, where I found myself, just like impulse buying secondhand things from, you know, a local store, because it's so affordable. I'm not so much buying secondhand online, because, you know, I have to pay for shipping and all of that.
But when it's so accessible, and it's just so cheap, and like, you don't really have to think twice about it, you definitely, and I definitely have slipped into just buying for the sake of it. And so I think, you know, I know what it is like to be there. And I don't really shame people or like judge people for buying a lot of secondhand.
I think, at the end of the day, I would prefer that people are buying secondhand, then new and fast fashion. So I think, yeah, it's a tricky line to walk because I sometimes feel a bit icky when I see like massive secondhand hauls.
And then as you're saying, I'm also wondering, like, how long do people actually wear these garments for? And like, do they treat them the same as if it's something brand new, and they want to keep it for a really long time?
And yeah, there's like a lot of things that go through my head, but I think we, you know, I just, it would never make me feel as icky as like a big, fast fashion haul, or totally seeing somebody like rip open SHEIN bags on the internet just just is not the same. So I can't really put them in the same boat.
ELIZABETH
Totally, totally, I think that they're definitely on totally different levels. I feel like I am liking seeing some secondhand platforms, you know, not just assuming ok secondhand fashion is sustainable, therefore, all of our other operations, we can just be careless about it.
I'm loving seeing that, like companies like Vestiaire Collective are also thinking about there, you know, shipping and, you know, just other elements of the like, the supply chain that can have an impact. Like if we're you know, sending, especially online secondhand shopping, right? If we're sending everything in, like single use poly bags that are ending up in the landfill. Like that's also not ideal.
Of course, it's still better than a brand new garment coming in a poly bag. But, you know, I think there's still room for improvement.
But yeah, I think overall, it's I'm not from a consumer lens, I feel like it's not our biggest concern. Like we have way bigger problems at this point. And that would be amazing, if we get to a point in the sustainable fashion movement that like that is our biggest problem. I mean, that would be great if that's the biggest problem we have to solve.
But I saw there was a quote that I read that I wanted to read out and I'm very curious what your thoughts are Stella. So the RealReal's Director of Merchandising, Sasha Ahsoka said that this behavior of overconsumption will quote "will happen regardless. So shifting those consumers to luxury resale items with a longer lifespan, instead of fast fashion is a positive shift. The obsession with newness is counter intuitive to sustainability in general, but it's where consumers are right now."
What's your hot take on that?
STELLA
My hot take? Okay. Yeah, it's, um, it's an interesting quote, because I guess I agree and disagree.
I agree that, as I said earlier, if people are gonna shop, I would prefer that it's secondhand. I just feel like it is extending the lifespan and hopefully keeping things out of a landfill or out of like, you know, communities that have to deal with the consequences of waste colonialism.
But I don't know, it feels a little bit icky, because luxury resale, first of all, is also one, very inaccessible because of the price points. And also, I don't necessarily think that we should be saying that the behavior of overconsumption will happen regardless. I don't think we need to normalize it to that point.
You know, I think it's a mindset and behavior that has become — it's come with fast fashion. And it's not something that we always had, you know. We didn't always relate to our clothing and the speed at which we acquire clothing in this way.
And so I think that to say it's going to happen regardless, maybe I'd rather just not hear those words, because I think it's something we can unlearn. I think it's a behavior that even though I said, you know, overconsuming secondhand is not my main priority because I think there are bigger systemic issues… I still think it's not the best thing in the world because I still think that shifting our mindset to buying with intention to relating to our clothing more intentionally is really where we need to be at.
Yeah, I don't know, what do you think? What's your hot take?
ELIZABETH
Yeah, so many great points there. I mean, yeah, a the, like luxury resale, even though it's less than full-price luxury, it's, I wouldn't call it necessarily affordable. You might still be paying $500 for a bag or a dress, but or probably thousands of dollars per bag, and, you know, several hundreds for a garment.
And, yeah, I think because so we have, we've had several fashion psychologists on this podcast or two, we've had Dr. Dion Terrelonge, and Shakaila Forbes-Bell. And both of them, I believe, said, you know, pointed out this thing that we're sort of primed as humans for novelty. And I feel really intrigued to, like, dive deeper into that. Of course, I'm not a psychologist or a sociologist.
But I kind of want to question that a little bit. And I'm not saying that that's wrong, I guess. But do we have to assume that consumers are just we always will want constant newness. And maybe we do like newness through evolutionary things that happened.
But how much newness is really inherent to the human condition, versus a product of constant marketing, and literally everywhere we go?
So I think we should question that this quote, obsession with newness, as the RealReal's Director of Merchandising said, is something we have to just like, accept, right?
STELLA
Yeah, and like, it's something that we can't really get rid of. So we may as well just find new ways to expend our energy and like, you know, I think that's — it's quite limiting. And it throws out like the argument also for creativity over consumption and the idea that novelty can come in many different forms.
And I guess, we can feel challenged to be creative in many different ways outside of just consuming. So yeah, I agree with you. I think it's an interesting thing to ponder.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, totally. Like, Alyssa Beltempo's episode on the podcast about creativity over consumption. And we've had several slow fashion stylists come on and talk about how we can restyle pieces in our closet. And right, the newness can also come from like making new outfits from old clothes.
Like I know, it's a very similar experience, for me like to find a new outfit combination, as like getting a new garment, I think, I think that level of excitement can be quite similar. And sometimes even better, because maybe you have a favorite top. You just love the way it feels. You love the way it looks on you. And then you find another way to wear it. And you're like, yes, I get to wear this top even more that I know, I already love. Like, I can think I think that can be just as fun and you know, feel as fresh and, and new too.
STELLA
I totally agree. I totally agree. Or just finding something you haven't worn in years, and you just kept it. And all of a sudden, you just wear it so much again, that's been happening to me lately a lot. And I'm so grateful that I kept all the things that I have over the years.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, I love that. I love that.
So one other point that I thought of with this question was, you know, when we're thinking about like the sustainability of secondhand, something that always comes into my mind is what Emily Stochl, the host of Pre-Loved Podcast, who we've also had on this podcast. So I'll leave I'll leave all the links to the previous episodes that I'm mentioning here in the episode description if you want to check those out.
But anyway, Emily Stochl often talks about on her Instagram and Patreon about the key sustainability benefit of secondhand or like one of them right, of course, one is waste reduction. But the I guess the second big sustainability element is that it would ideally help us reduce new production. Because people would, in theory, choose a secondhand version of what they're looking for instead of buying it new.
So I guess my question is: is the consumption of secondhand reducing the production of new? And you know, on a macro level, we're not seeing that. Production has not slowed down. Even with the rise of popularity of secondhand.
In which case, the stream of secondhand clothing or you know, of clothing that eventually becomes waste is also continuing to increase even as more and more people are choosing secondhand as well. So that's sort of like, an interesting question to consider to.
STELLA
Definitely. And I think it's interesting, because on a personal level, it could be replacing your consumption of new things. I know, for me, like, I think maybe around 80% of my wardrobe is secondhand.
But then, because fast fashion is this beast that is just continuing to overproduce, it's not actually slowing down, overall production. And you know, as fast fashion gets faster, the secondhand market is also becoming more and more flooded by these garments. And they also last, you know, not very long, so people wear them for much shorter, and it kind of perpetuates this cycle.
And so then the secondhand industry starts to mimic the fast fashion industry. And I don't know, I've already seen many fast fashion garments in my local, like thrift stores. So it's been quite alarming.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, yeah, totally.
In terms of this question of overconsuming secondhand fashion, I feel like, instead of looking at it from a consumer perspective, it's maybe more productive to consider the stream of fashion coming out into us.
Like the decreasing quality, and just the pressure to just like, constantly buy, and the speeding up of the trend cycles and all of that stuff. And looking at overconsumption as a whole, and how like, the increasing production and reduce in quality of new fashion is impacting the secondhand market.
Because like the second hand market is by nature only, you can only have, like, you can only have what's in the second hand market if it was created in the first place, I guess.
STELLA
And that would be like my final take as well, just that, you know, it is possible to overconsume secondhand. Like, it's possible to overconsume anything, and we're not advocating for that. But we're also saying that there are bigger issues at play, issues relating to overproduction and extreme waste.
And I think that needs to be our main focus right now. Instead of like fixating on individual behaviors, you know, we really need to look at the system, and where we can affect change at different points in the system. And maybe one day if we're lucky. Individuals over consuming secondhand will be our biggest issue, but for now, it's really not.
ELIZABETH
Yeah. I guess, like my final take is like from a sustainability lens. Yeah, it's, it's definitely not a huge concern. We just need to be worrying more about like the initial overproduction and overconsumption that's flooding the secondhand markets.
But from an individual perspective, and sort of like building a healthier relationship to our wardrobes and being happier with our closets, I do feel like it's not the best idea to just like do constant thrift hauls and like flood our closets with cheap stuff because I feel like we'll get more lost in our personal style and like feel like we have nothing to wear, feel overwhelmed, at least personally.
Of course, everybody has a different approach to their closet and some people are more minimalist, some people are more maximalist. But personally, I find that if I make thoughtless purchases, even if they're secondhand, I don't really wear that garment. I don't like invest in like, you know, keeping it as long as possible. necessarily. And you know, I feel like that kind of dampers my happiness with my closet.
So I guess my final take is like, I'm not too worried about like the sustainability of overconsuming secondhand necessarily at this point, maybe my opinion will change. But I do feel like if we want to build a healthy relationship to our clothes, it's not the best approach.
STELLA
Definitely and create a thrift wishlist. I feel like that has saved me. So just create a list of all the things that you really wish to find secondhand and try to stick to it. I think that works really well.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, totally. Having a thrift wish list and a list of pre-buy questions like you would have for new clothes. All those things are fantastic and it's always going to be better to not overconsume secondhand and being as intentional as possible is always preferable.
But those were are thoughts on how much of a concern overconsuming secondhand is. It's kind of a gray area, as most of the topics we cover are!
We hope the conversation does not end here. Send me a DM us on Instagram at @consciousstyle and let me know what you think. Something that you agree with disagree with? You know, these are kind of discussion points not ultimatums.
Hope you enjoyed the episode. If you did: rate, review, and share this podcast!
We'll catch you again for next week's interview and the week after that they'll be another green or greenwashing segment