There is so much to unpack when it comes to fast fashion's greenwashing. In this Conscious Question episode, Stella and Elizabeth break down if fast fashion brands could ever be sustainable.
Can fast fashion brands ever be sustainable? If someone is going to buy from fast fashion, is it better to shop from these conscious or eco-capsule collections? And what is the deal with fast fashion's sustainability ambassadors?
Should minor improvements from Big Fashion brands still be celebrated since these brands have such a large impact, footprint, and huge buying power?
And when we're trying to make better choices, how can we tell if a fashion brand is greenwashing?
Hit play to hear Stella and Elizabeth's perspectives on fast fashion's sustainability efforts.
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ELIZABETH
Can fast fashion brands ever be sustainable? If someone is going to buy from fast fashion, is it better to shop from these conscious or eco-capsule collections? And what is the deal with fast fashion's sustainability ambassadors?
Should minor improvements from Big Fashion brands still be celebrated since these brands have such a large impact, footprint, and huge buying power?
And when we're trying to make better choices, how can we tell if a fashion brand is greenwashing?
We're covering it all in this episode…
ELIZABETH
Hey everyone, and welcome to a special short series of the Conscious Style Podcast: Conscious Questions. So we've wrapped up season four, and season five will be coming early next year, which feels a little wild to say, but we are nearing the end of 2022.
But in any case, in the meantime, between seasons, Stella and I wanted to chat about some of the common questions related to conscious fashion and sustainable fashion.
So if you have any thoughts on what we chat about, if you agree, you disagree, have a follow up question, or have an entirely different question that you want us to address in a future Conscious Question podcast episode, you can send a DM to @consciousstyle on Instagram, or email podcast@consciouslifeandstyle.com with your feedback or question, so we're looking forward to hearing from you. We'd love to get your questions.
And before we get into today's question, Stella, can you just quickly introduce yourself for anyone who maybe hasn't listened to your guest host episodes yet?
STELLA
Of course. Hello, everybody. I am Stella and I'm based in Cape Town, South Africa, in case my accent sounds a little bit different. And I've been guest-hosting a few episodes on the podcast over the past few months, which has been a lot of fun.
And other than that, I'm also a contributing writer at Conscious Life & Style and Conscious Fashion Collective. So you may have seen my name on the website a few times.
And I'm really excited for this new mini-series and to be chatting with Elizabeth.
ELIZABETH
Yes, I'm really looking forward to this. And I guess also, if you're brand new here, I should introduce myself, I'm Elizabeth, the founder, and editor of Conscious Life & Style, a digital media platform about conscious fashion and lifestyle, and the creator behind the at @consciousstyle account on Instagram and the host of this podcast. So lots of things sustainability and fashion related.
But our first question for this series that Stella and I are going to be diving into is - can fast fashion brands ever be sustainable? So Stella, you wrote an entire article on this for the site. So what do you think? What are your thoughts?
STELLA
Okay, I feel like this is a very juicy one and perhaps the million-dollar question because it feels as though at the moment, we're just being bombarded by so many different pieces of information from fast fashion brands relating to conscious collections, different marketing campaigns around sustainability, and environmentally friendly garments, take back programs really the works.
And it's causing a lot of confusion. Because we also hear a lot of backlash around how fast fashion isn't sustainable. So I'll give you my hot take first, which is that no, I don't believe that fast fashion brands can ever be sustainable. And we can kind of start from there for the conversation to unpack that, because it's a bit more complicated than just that statement.
But yeah, that's the hot take. I think a good starting point for us to chat about Elizabeth is just the idea of fast fashion being a business model, first and foremost, I think to frame it that way helps us see the systemic patterns below the surface, right?
So let's look at fast fashion as a business model, right? So the fast fashion business model basically, is based on the need to constantly increase profit and economic growth. And to do this, they have to overproduce constantly and convince people to overconsume.
In order to do that, they have to also exploit and extract resources, as well as exploiting garment workers and paying non-livable wages in order to ensure that the garments are artificially cheap, right? So yeah, I don't know if you have any thoughts on that. But that's kind of the starting point, I think. We need to address the fact that the business model of us fashion is unsustainable, first and foremost.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, yeah, totally. And even backtracking a little bit, might even help to talk a little bit about what we mean by fast fashion, because I will get that like, someone asked me, a friend asked me the other day like, so Elizabeth are basically all the stores at the mall, fast fashion? And I was like, yeah, pretty much.
And it's just also I've gotten questions from people like wait, so what is fast fashion?
And like even the question of like, is Levi's fast fashion, you know, sort of these mid-market brands that aren't super cheap, but are mass produced. And so I think for this conversation, people might be referring to different things when they say fast fashion, so maybe we, maybe we just step back a little bit and talk about what we mean by fast fashion.
And I mean, I think that you did a great job talking about the business model of fast fashion. So I would agree with that and say that any brand that has that business model of just constantly churning out new clothing, mass-produced….
STELLA
Right.
ELIZABETH
… is kind of fast fashion and then it's sort of a spectrum from there like we have maybe like, Express or White House Black Market or Ann Taylor, which might be considered a bit more of a premium class fashion, right? But at the end of the day, I still have like new clothes coming in, I don't know, every month, constantly, still pushing you to buy, buy, buy.
And then we have regular fast fashion, I guess, like the Forever 21s from my generation. Also H&M or Zara, and sometimes these brands will have super cheap stuff, but also like you can I mean, sometimes a coat on Zara, for instance, might be $150.
STELLA
Yes, for sure. Sometimes the price can't tell.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And then we kind of have ultra-fast fashion, which is like Shein, Boohoo, Misguided, Pretty Little Thing, and like a million others that I'm missing because I'm not totally in that world. But it feels like these online brands that might have new arrivals every single week, if not every single day.
So I feel some of the questions of like, what is fast fashion? I feel like kind of like some of the questions you could ask are like, do they constantly have new arrivals? Are they constantly pushing you to buy? Are the prices questionably low? Or do they constantly have sales if their prices aren't low?
Because like, sometimes brands might have a more premium price point, but then just always have things on sale.
And it might not be cheap, necessarily always. Because I'm thinking of like Anthropologie. You might think that they're ethical, because they have a higher price point. But also just like the amount of stuff and the newness, and if they say anything about like their production methods or not.
It's hard to totally define fast fashion, because it's just so it's like, is it every fashion brand basically? And even luxury fashion, I've seen people talking about how luxury fashion is speeding up. And it used to be much slower than it is now.
So it's basically like every element of the fashion system has sped up. I mean, I wouldn't go as far as to say, luxury fashion as fast fashion. But in some cases, it's still moving faster. And that I think that's also part of the problem that we're going to be talking about today.
STELLA
Yeah, no, I fully agree. And I think that, even if you want to do there is a lot of data out there. So if you look at documents, like the Fashion Revolution's Transparency Index, or Remake's Accountability Report, you can often find a lot of data on these very common brands, if you do just want to check around there.
How they produce, what they produce, the speed, and all those kinds of things, if you're not entirely sure. But do want to make sure about the brand that you are curious about or looking into whether it's fast fashion or not, whether they have ethical practices or not.
ELIZABETH
Yeah.
STELLA
So I got a bit ahead of myself and started talking about the business of fashion.
ELIZABETH
No, no, I think that was great. I was just thinking about that, honestly, as you were answering the question, and I was like, wait, maybe people don't know what we mean by fast fashion.
Because sometimes they get questions also from listeners or readers, asking is this brand fast fashion? And, you know, it's sort of like, I can't look into every single brand, but maybe these sort of rules of thumb help?
STELLA
No, for sure, for sure. And I think it's good to backtrack as well. Because sometimes when we're so much in this world, we forget that it's really important to take a step back and redefine what we mean when we talk about certain things.
So yeah, now that you have a better understanding of what fast fashion is, and I've also spoken a bit about the business model so underpinning a lot of the brands that Elizabeth mentioned, you'll often find common traits.
As I was saying, and as we were saying about speed, about overproduction, about driving overconsumption through marketing, and lots of different channels. And then exploitation and extraction of resources, which is probably one of the biggest sustainability pitfalls of the fashion industry, which comes from overproduction, and the subsequent overconsumption.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, this overproduction and overconsumption I mean, I think that's just the two key signs of fast fashion. Because they're often like these polyester garments and this is kind of getting into another maybe sub-question, as these fast fashion brands start coming out with supposedly more eco-friendly materials for their clothes.
And so that’s kind of, they might be using organic cotton for their shirts or recycled polyester for their leggings, but at the end of the day, are they still overproducing and then pushing overconsumption?
That's sort of like, because I used to define fast fashion, as they're mostly synthetic garments, which I think is true. But I hesitate now to define fast fashion is that, because there could be confusion as these fast fashion brands integrate, again, these supposedly more eco-friendly materials?
Will people think that oh, well, H&M uses organic cotton, and therefore they're not fast fashion? And so the lines are really blurring with that.
STELLA
Right? And I also look at what they are not telling us, right? They like to talk a lot about material innovations and like recycled fibers, or natural fibers, or things that make the materials of the clothes more sustainable.
But they'll never talk about labor rights and living wage and slowing down.
So when you think about the things that they're focusing on to take energy and attention away from what they're not speaking about, it becomes a bit more clear that they're not actually changing the core of their functioning.
ELIZABETH
Mhm
STELLA
I also get the question a lot of is buying from a conscious collection better? Or does it make buying fast fashion sustainable? And that's a tricky one to answer. And I was wondering, yeah, what are your thoughts on that question?
ELIZABETH
Yeah, that is also a very juicy question — an interesting question to contemplate. Like does buying from this — and I did use to think this — that buying from a conscious collection, eco collection from a fast fashion brand was encouraging them to continue to produce that kind of stuff.
And that was kind of my vantage point years ago, but my perspective has shifted on that. Because of many things.
I mean, one, I think that maybe these conscious collections were impressive six years ago, but we haven't seen like any progress, maybe, okay, that's your way to test the market. And then you should really integrate it into your whole business model, these more supposedly conscious practices. But they have not.
H&M has stayed with just having this small, little collection. And so any argument that they made before that was like, well, we're testing it, to expand, and I don't know if they did, but I know a lot of that's what a lot of brands say in general, but they didn't, right?
It's just still this small, little collection. And now they have to actually remove the labels of that because of their greenwashing warning.
ELIZABETH
So that's the other question is - is it even conscious? Is it even eco-friendly? They might say it is, but is it? Like you have to really look into the details.
And like Kourtney Kardashian's collection with Boohoo is a great example of I think all of the pitfalls of these fast fashion, conscious collection. A, it was 45 pieces. Like literally the collection, they advertised it like it was…
STELLA
It’s so comical.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, they advertised it like it was this huge thing. And they're new in collection alone, right now has 2,700 designs.
STELLA
Wow. That is mind-blowing.
ELIZABETH
Like, what?
STELLA
I cannot even get my head around that.
ELIZABETH
45 pieces? That is a drop in the bucket.
STELLA
And I was looking at the pieces earlier and a lot of them yes, they are some like recycled content, but they're still a lot of them are made from synthetics and it's just interesting to look at them against the rest of BooHoo’s brand like you were saying it's kind of a drop in the ocean.
And I'm wondering with these celebrities one and must be really, really expensive to get them on as kind of like sustainability ambassadors. Where that money could be so much better spent in other areas of the business, specifically around garment workers, and people in the supply chain that are being way underpaid.
And also in terms of her being the sustainability ambassador. I'm wondering like, did she do her homework? Did she look into who this brand is like? Does she know that they're one of the biggest offenders when it comes to fashion's impact?
That's really interesting to me because you only have to do one Google search to find out Boohoo's greenwashing, right?
ELIZABETH
And she acknowledged that she was like, fast fashion is a bad reputation or something like that. But I was really excited by their sustainability initiatives.
And like, to your point, I mean, I don't know when she accepted this partnership, but Boohoo is literally currently under investigation for greenwashing by CMA in the UK. Like they're currently being investigated for greenwashing by a watchdog. I mean, it doesn't get more obvious than that, right?
STELLA
It's kind of unbelievable. And I think celebrities do have such a massive platform and influence and it can be used for good, which, you know, is a really important thing to do. But when you're advocating for a brand that has such clear, environmental, and like social, like greenwashing and exploitative allegations against the name, like, it seems a bit ridiculous — I can't believe that she wouldn't know that before going..
ELIZABETH
Right. Yeah. It's just every I think fast fashion-conscious collection faux pas. It's a miniscule collection. Some of the materials maybe are lower impact, but others are like, how are you even considering this remotely green?
And thirdly it's just so much marketing noise, and so little actual impact.
And then yeah, fourthly, to your point: where's the talk about garment workers like Kourtney and her sustainable fashion docuseries, where she's interviewing people, was talking about garment worker rights, but where's the action on that?
And where's the transparency on how much money Boohoo is spending on a sustainability ambassador like herself, versus how much they're allocating in their budget for ensuring fair wages? I mean, that's as a metric I want to see. Those are the numbers I want to see.
STELLA
Know exactly as Aja Barber always says we cannot have sustainability without ethics. So that's another, it's another big point in this conversation around fast fashion ever being sustainable is that they straight out, just ignore that side of the conversation entirely.
So yeah, it's a really big point, you know, to make back to my very strong statement at the beginning, that I don't believe that they can ever be sustainable.
ELIZABETH
Yeah.
STELLA
I wanted to quickly just come back to that question that we were chatting about earlier around is buying from a conscious collection better, because I sometimes worry that we don't also want to demonize people that have to buy fast fashion.
ELIZABETH
Right.
STELLA
You know, there's many reasons that somebody might still need to buy fast fashion, whether it's around size inclusivity, or any kind of lifestyle and lived experience that just doesn't allow.
I think for me, my perspective on it, which has also shifted is just around being more mindful about how and why we consume in general.
So if you are going to buy something, regardless of where it's from, just to make sure that that is something you're going to be wearing and loving for many years, and getting a lot of wear out of because sometimes, in this movement, we speak a lot about where we buy from, which is really important.
But also when we don't have choice around that it's about why we buy? And with slowness, fast fashion has become a mindset and many of our lives. And slowness can also become a mindset.
So just being aware of you don't need to find every trend. Just because they're coming out with so many styles a day or a week doesn't mean that you have to have them and you're like, the best wardrobe will always be the one you have.
But why are you buying and will you be wearing that piece for many, many years to come? I think is maybe a better consideration instead of weighing up fast fashion brands against each other.
ELIZABETH
Right, right. If that piece was made with 20% organic cotton, but you're not realistically going to wear it again, then maybe the better choice is the one that you're like, oh, I really love this. I'm gonna wear this 100 times.
STELLA
Exactly.
ELIZABETH
I mean, yeah, I own fast fashion pieces. I used to shop fast fashion brands for sure. And I think most of us do. Like who of us is like perfect 100%?
STELLA
From day one?!
ELIZABETH
Secondhand eco-friendly, just perfection, realistically.
But like, I think it's worth thinking about, if this brand's supposed conscious collection is even conscious. And just knowing that's not enough to make the brand itself sustainable.
STELLA
Right, so it's almost like cherry-picking, right? So that's the thing about greenwashing. And the thing about conscious collections. And the reason why we can't have a broken system and put all these tiny little cherry-picked options on top of it and call it like, sustainable. It is because these brands are choosing what to focus on.
They're not addressing the system that they're built on. They're choosing to focus on recycled content here and there, choosing to incorporate celebrity influencers into their mix, to try and create the perception that they're doing something different.
They're choosing all of these different acts and all of them invariably, even their resale programs align with creating more profit. So while they'll market it as green, 9 times, I mean, almost invariably, it's to do with profit making.
For example, take-back programs often have a voucher exchange system where if you go into a store, and there's a take-back box or whatever, where you can drop off items that you no longer away from the brand, it's usually in exchange for a voucher to shop more or a little bit percentage off to shop more at the brand.
Even with the sustainability kind of celebrity influencers or ambassadors, it's often to capture, the people who aspire to them and live up to their lifestyle, so that they can also have another captive audience.
And yeah, I think if you're just aware of the greenwashing tactics, and how these kinds of efforts and initiatives often will result in greater profits for the brand, that's when it becomes obvious that they're not, you know, not doing these sustainability efforts in an attempt to become more eco friendly or socially responsible.
It's in an attempt to really, you know, as we're talking about Gen Z, appeal to this new market that is more socially and environmentally aware, while not compromising on what they're actually here to do, which is to maximize the profit margins. I don't know if that was too blunt.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, no, I mean, at the end of the day, their business, they might even be a business traded publicly. So that's gonna be the goal.
And yes, a business has to make some level of profits to stay in business, but the extreme level of profits at all costs to whoever they need to exploit along the way, and whatever damage they need to cause along the way, like that's, it's just taken to such an extreme.
And yeah, to your point about this sustainability ambassadors, I mean, Boohoo is not the only one we know like Laura Whitmore with Primark cares, and Maisie Williams with H&M's global sustainability ambassador.
These are people that are not known for knowing anything about sustainability. So it's obviously not actually about sustainability.
ELIZABETH
Some people also, this is something that I've been thinking about after reading an article on Fashionista called, Who Gets To Be A Fashion Activist?
And they were talking about there being two groups of environmentalists, like these "bright greens" who want to work inside the system and change it and "dark greens" that want to advocate outside of the system and push for more dramatic change.
So there might be some people were like, yeah, but any progress from a fast fashion or like a big fashion brand, should that be celebrated because they have such a big impact? Like an environmental impact and impact on so many workers.
Shouldn't we be celebrating even their small changes, because their small changes can have an impact on a lot of people or have a big dent in carbon emissions?
So what's your take on that, Stella?
STELLA
I acknowledge where that thinking comes from and I think I buy into it a lot of the time, especially when it comes to businesses making more green choices or making more socially responsive choices.
I just feel as though I personally have a block against fast fashion brands doing that, or celebrating the wins of fast fashion brands, because I just feel like they always do it for the wrong reasons. I haven't had a good example of where I feel like it's been really genuine.
I think a good example, as well of this is Fashion Revolution's Transparency Index. I remember, I think it was 2020 when H&M scored quite high on their transparency index, and they sent out all of this marketing, like celebrating this big win. And then got called out because transparency doesn't actually have, it doesn't equal sustainability.
Yes, it means that we know more about the supply chain and what's going on behind the scenes. It doesn't mean that they're making better choices behind the scenes, though.
So it's a really interesting point because we do need to celebrate these kinds of brands getting onto being more transparent or making better choices, but we can't celebrate it to the point where they think it's enough, if that makes sense.
ELIZABETH
Yeah it's the first step. It's like the bare minimum.
And also something I'd like to add with the transparency point is how much of that data is self-reported versus third party. Because also a brand can just put out information.
For instance, you'll see like, we use X percent preferred materials. Who's even defining what preferred materials are?
There isn’t that standardization around sustainability claims like there is with, let's say, finances. So you also don't always know if the data is totally accurate. And that's why we just need, we need watchdogs. We need regulation, that is evening the playing field.
Because first of all, who knows if the data is right? Second of all, we have so many brands that aren't even putting out any data. I mean, there's still brands scoring like 0% on Fashion Revolution's Transparency Index after all these years.
STELLA
Yeah, so wild.
ELIZABETH
And that's just the whole thing of like, this isn't about shaming people, if they rely on fast fashion and occasionally buy a fast fashion piece.
It's like, also, if you care about these things, I think an amazing way to get involved is like learning about some of this legislation that's in the works. And Remake is an amazing organization to follow Clean Clothes Campaign, Fashion Revolution, of course.
Clean Clothes Campaign and Fashion Revolution have a big campaign called Good Clothes Fair Pay, which you discussed with Anne, Stella, in a previous episode from clean clothes campaign.
And like, just legislation like that, that's going to even the playing field. Because it is really, really hard as an individual consumer to even know what is green or greenwashing, or sustainable.
And frankly, this is something that I talked about in the What is Ethical Fashion episode, the beginning of this podcast, which is like, paying living wages is like a bare minimum.
You know, that shouldn't be a niche at's a niche. And it shouldn't be up to some consumer in a wealthy area, in the Global North largely speaking — their decision to buy an ethical garment or not, that shouldn't define whether a worker in say Bangladesh gets paid a living wage.
Like it that should just be the floor of fashion, every garment should be made by people making living wages.
STELLA
And it also puts the burden of ethics and sustainability on the consumer, right? It shouldn't be something that we have to buy our way to, to convince the brand that it makes business sense or whatever, for them to make better choices right there.
This is why legislation is going to be absolutely essential, because we need something greater to be able to hold these brands accountable. And to say, actually, you don't have a choice. Actually, these are human rights that you are playing with, and just not right. You have to do better.
I think once a brand, if we can even just get one brand to do things differently, others will follow suit. Because at the end of the day, they all want to be at the forefront of the things that make them look good, no matter what that is. So I'm hopeful. But yeah, I think legislation is going to plug that gap and really make the biggest difference when it comes to instigating that kind of systemic change.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, and like good, holistic legislation that isn't just doesn't somehow put the burden then on factories. Because I know there has been legislation in the past that kind of put undue pressure on factories, but just more holistic, where it's putting the burden on the biggest power — the player in this system that has the biggest power and the most money, which are the brands.
I'm not a policy expert, but I definitely like to refer or defer to organizations like Remake and their takes on things because that's also like an important consideration. Like I just want to acknowledge because sometimes we can get into this all legislation is of the fashion industry is good.
And talking with a supplier where like a packaging rule, the burden was placed on them. And they had to basically pay more for this eco-friendly packaging. But the brand didn't pay them more for it.
So it's like, we also have to make sure that legislation is getting to the real, like the truly responsible players.
STELLA
No for sure, for sure. And really having the voices of grassroots organizations and trade unions and workers voices coming to the fore in these kinds of legislative debates is going to be really important.
Because it's also not right for, you know, the rest of the world to make decisions on behalf of people. So I think that that work of bringing in lived experiences is vital.
ELIZABETH
For sure, for sure.
STELLA
But we shouldn't lose hope as well, because we can all be a part of the change. And I think it's really important to remain just realistically optimistic, because I think creating change in the fashion industry is amazing, because we all wear clothes, and we all adorn ourselves in like, beautiful things. And that means that we're part of the system too.
So as much as we don't have to take the burden of the entire system on our shoulders, we do have voice and power to create change in whatever, like spheres that we have access to.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, totally. And, yeah, I feel like there's just sort of balance with like, we need to advocate for Big Fashion to do better and we need to be campaigning, and being a consumer activist and pushing for better.
But on the same token, Big Fashion is not going to save us, right, just like Big Business is not going to save us from the climate crisis. Big Fashion is not going to be — that's not where the best solutions are gonna come from. But like, we also still should advocate for them to do better and like push for legislation that's going to regulate them, because the truth is that they still exist, and
STELLA
Probably will for a while so…
ELIZABETH
and so we should improve them as well.
STELLA
Yes, exactly. Exactly. So I guess to answer the question, that was a long, long answer to the question.
So I think I said my take at the beginning. Do you want to say yours at the end?
ELIZABETH
Yeah, I think that, in terms of can fast fashion brands ever be sustainable? No, I think because they're basically founded on this idea of overproducing and pushing overconsumption, and as soon as they slow down, they go out of business.
When we look at brands like Missguided, Forever 21, Boohoo was reporting issues. As soon as they slow down, as soon as people stop consuming insane amounts of clothing, their businesses literally fall apart.
So I don't see a way for fast fashion to slow down and be produced in a way that's in line with planetary boundaries, and stay in business. Because their business is literally reliant on producing tons and tons of clothes really cheaply.
So no, I don't think that they can. I think as soon as fast fashion would truly become sustainable in the sense that it's in line with planetary boundaries and treats its workers fairly, ensures living wages, all that stuff, then I don't think it's fast fashion any more.
Like they would have to slow down basically to be sustainable. So then it wouldn't be fast fashion anymore.
STELLA
Exactly.
ELIZABETH
I guess.
STELLA
That would be ideal.
ELIZABETH
Right.
Can we consume fast fashion in a sustainable way? That's a different question, but I would say, yeah, I think that's possible.
I think that you can buy it secondhand. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Because frankly, 90% of thrift stores are fast fashion anyway, so if you try to avoid fast fashion, it's going to be really hard.
STELLA
Right. And if you have it in your wardrobe already, that's completely sustainable, anyway.
ELIZABETH
Yeah.
STELLA
Also, we could link to articles on greenwashing, perhaps, that we already have on the site. And probably a more concise answer to this question in the article that I've written.
But I think yes, this conversation has gone into a lot more depth on the point of that article. So it's a good complimentary resource, perhaps, and it has some hyperlinks if you want to click through on those for more information.
And I think I've also written an article on legislation, which might have a few useful pointers for you to look into if you're interested in just looking into a few of the major legislations that are out at the moment or coming out in the near future.
Yeah. Are there any other articles that you think might be useful to add in the show notes?
ELIZABETH
I think — if I think of any, I'll add them in the show notes.
STELLA
Perfect.
ELIZABETH
And then I think that all this talk about fast fashion, can fast fashion be sustainable? Brings up the question of how can I tell if a brand is greenwashing?
So if you, you know, if someone does have the ability to support a conscious brand, wants to make sure their money is going towards a brand that they genuinely aligns with their values and isn't just saying that they do. How can I tell? What do you think?
STELLA
Also a million dollar question because I feel like it's getting more complex by the day with all of these different marketing tactics that they're using.
But I know that, for me, the place that I often go to is a resource like Good On You. And it just basically has a lot of ratings of brands that will tell you how they rate on various different measures, whether it's labor or materials or production.
Another thing that I do sometimes just very basic, which takes very little time is just to Google the name of the brand and greenwashing and put it in a Google search, you'll see if any articles pop up that have called them out for various things.
You can click into them and read more to see if that's a reputable source. But if you want a very quick, quick way to check just from the get go, especially on big brands, because it becomes a bit trickier when you get smaller brands that may not have as much of an internet presence or media presence. That is a good way to start.
And yeah, there are a few questions that you can ask. Either by searching them online, or just, you know, going onto the brand's website and seeing if you can figure out if they fit into these categories. This is around how many collections are they releasing? Are they releasing every week, every day?
That for sure is unsustainable, because there's no way that you can produce that much and not be wasting and not be overproducing and probably treating garment workers terribly because yeah, you're just producing way too much.
What fabrics are they using? Are they synthetic or natural fibers? Are they circular fibers like recycled?
Then for me, one of the most important things to look at if a brand is greenwashing or not is labor rights. Are they paying living wages? Are they investing in the wellbeing of their workers across the supply chain, you know from the farm all the way to retail, through the garment-making production hubs, you know, all of the people involved in garment production.
Yeah, I think — do you want to add if you have any more questions? Those are my main ones?
ELIZABETH
Yeah, no you really, really covered it there. I mean, I think that I would suggest also going back to the episode, What is Sustainable Fashion? and the episode What is Ethical Fashion?, and What is Slow Fashion? So those were like, the first three episodes of the podcast are like, sort of deeper dive as well.
But yeah, I mean, I think those are all really great questions. I also, just in general, I always like to prioritize small businesses.
STELLA
Right.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, there are definitely small, fast fashion brands or like boutiques locally, that source basically fast fashion. So this isn't to say that, like all small businesses are automatically sustainable. That's not what I'm saying.
But I will say that, and from my experience, so far, all of the like, truly sustainable brands that I feel like I could stand behind are small businesses.
STELLA
I agree.
ELIZABETH
So that's something to consider. Who owns the brand as well, I think that is also a really great thing to look into. Is it a billionaire? Is your money basically, like do you want to support a brand that where their money is like going to support this billionaire get their fifth yacht, you know?
Or do you want to support a small business where maybe they're able to? I don't know, if they're saving up to send their kids to college? Whatever it might be.
That's also like a question about if you feel good about where the money is going. And of course, this brings in the question of affordability. But I think there's a lot of small businesses that have affordable prices.
And I also think that fast fashion isn't always affordable. Especially with some of the stuff at Zara and H&M. I couldn't afford that stuff when I was at university. I literally would go into the store, and I'd be like, I can't afford this.
STELLA
Same.
ELIZABETH
So I think there are small businesses that can definitely compete with brands like Zara on price point, and definitely like a brand like Anthropologie.
Yeah, I think supporting small and looking at who owns the brand and where the money is going.
STELLA
I love doing that. And it also means that you can often speak to them directly, whether it's via DM or email, and ask them more about something if you're curious to know about their materials, or where they produce or if they have any kind of care programs or repair programs, anything like that.
It makes it much more of a personal experience. And I think it also makes you cherish that garment. For me, I know it does. It makes me cherish the garment even more knowing what I'm investing in.
And also, I think the person behind this brand, and I kind of know the story of this item. And I can feel how much value it adds to my life just see it as an investment. So I like supporting small for that reason, too.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, there's always secondhand, like, if you're feeling confused about it all, there's also secondhand.
I mean, I do think there's a lot of amazing slow conscious fashion brands worth supporting if you're able to do so 110% and we have seen a lot of them closed during the pandemic. And that does sort of bring forth that like if we're not supporting these businesses, they do go under.
And this isn't to say buy things you don't need obviously would never advocate for that. But when you're looking for something I do think it's worth supporting them as well.
But also secondhand is always, well most of the time, a great option.
And also like swapping. Like I am a member at Swap Society which is an online swapping service in the US. So this is perfect for instance, if you're fluctuating in sizes, like this is an amazing option you can responsibly rehome your garments that maybe don't fit your lifestyle or your size at the moment.
And then swap in preloved gently used garments that are your size or fit your lifestyle at the moment. So that's like honestly, if we could just swap that would just I mean if we could just if swapping was like also in like other areas of our lives but like especially in clothing, when like there can be so many changes. it's the best.
STELLA
It's the best true, it feel so good as well to watch somebody else know enjoying a garment that you don't fit into anymore or can't wear anymore, whatever reason. So there's so many benefits to it.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, half my wardrobe honestly, is my mom's clothes. And she's like, Oh, I love seeing you and my stuff. And I'm like, I love that you give me stuff for free.
STELLA
That's so sweet.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, I think that's really special. And like, I also just swapped a sweater vest. And the owner of swap society, Nicole, which we actually have an episode with her, by the way, if you want to go back to that episode, but she messaged me on Instagram and was like that’s used to be mine.
So that's like, so cool. I just, it just adds so much richness I feel like as well to the story behind the piece.
STELLA
And if you don't have online options for swapping, you can always look for in-person ones that are happening locally or organize one with your friends, or people perhaps in your local online community. I know, in South Africa, we don't have online swapping yet.
But it's easy enough to start a WhatsApp group and see if any of your friends are keen to switch up their wardrobes or if they know anybody that would be keen to do that. And you could just make an evening out of it or an afternoon.
And it's just a lot of fun. So there are lots of options out there if you don't want to support fast fashion. But yeah, I think we can all embrace depending on our circumstances. Yeah, there's something for everybody.
ELIZABETH
Totally. Yeah.
And something that I've been seeing is, this as sort of, to preface this, I'm 100% for regulating the fashion industry. It needs to be done, a 110%.
But something that I keep seeing is people saying that consumers are never going to be able to figure out what's sustainable or not with all the greenwashing until there's regulation.
And yes, regulation will make it much, much easier, and hopefully, we'll get to a world where greenwashing just won't happen because their scrutinizing it, and not enabling brands to make claims that aren't true or are exaggerated, and so on. That needs to happen.
But I guess just the part that I don't agree with is that people can't figure it out before then. Because that's like I have more faith in people than that.
STELLA
100%. And sometimes it's so obvious.
I just think there are a lot of tips that you can follow to easily tell if a brand is greenwashing. And you can't blame yourself if you can't tell because really, it is complicated sometimes, but to say that we have to wait for somebody else to tell us, is also just wild.
I don't believe that either. I think we're all very smart people. fast fashion, probably doesn't want to think or want us to think that we are smart enough to figure it out. But I think we can —
I think the legislation is more there to hold the brand accountable. I don't think, people needed to be able to tell the brand is greenwashing or not.
ELIZABETH
Right. Like it probably will help people. Like that's not the..
STELLA
… the main purpose. Yeah.
ELIZABETH
So I just found that interesting that they were saying it like that. I don't think it has to be this binary that we can't figure it out at all until legislation.
I think it can kind of be both. We can advocate for legislation, and also try to educate people more on greenwashing, while we get there too.
STELLA
100%. As with everything in the movement, I mean, we need legislation for most things, but we can also do our part in the interim. And I think even in my own sphere of influence, I can see like friends and families rethinking these things, and that hasn't been because of legislation.
It's just through conversations and sharing resources and opening you know, like to other ideas and ways of existing in the fashion system. So I think that we can all play our part before the legislation comes. And when it comes, it's going to be even better.
ELIZABETH
Yes. I think that is a great way to wrap up this first edition of our Conscious Question Series.
STELLA
Amazing. I hope it was useful. I hope that you understand the complexities of the fast fashion beast a little bit better, and can navigate your way through the greenwashing tactics a little bit better, too.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, definitely. And then the next episode, we're going to be talking about fast fashion resale programs. So stay tuned for that.
We decided that would be its whole other question within the sort of fast fashion and greenwashing conversation because I think it's a complex question. And we have a lot to unpack with that. So I'm looking forward to that conversation, Stella.
STELLA
Me too. I can't wait to dive in. We'll see you in that episode.
ELIZABETH
See you all soon. Bye!